[EE]

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[EE]

madscientistatlarge
Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf board?  I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of all components.  This would be a variable (digital programming) buck converter.  Current will be about 10A max, usually less.  Output noise and somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case.  Obviously I'd also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the concerns.  Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?  I know this is usually somewhat problematic.  Thanks.


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Re: [EE]

Bob Blick-5
Probably be better than most of the cheap buck converter modules from eBay/Aliexpress.

Remember, any switching regulator needs to have output ripple in order to regulate. Otherwise how would you control the duty cycle of the switch? If you need low ripple, you must use a secondary filter.

Cheers, Bob

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of madscientistatlarge
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 3:03 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [EE]

Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf board?  I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of all components.  This would be a variable (digital programming) buck converter.  Current will be about 10A max, usually less.  Output noise and somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case.  Obviously I'd also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the concerns.  Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?  I know this is usually somewhat problematic.  Thanks.



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Re: [EE]

Jason White-20
In reply to this post by madscientistatlarge
Absolutely! The key is planning out the component placement and signal
routing. As long as the design (schematic, etc.) is good, a hand-wired
circuit operating at 10s or even 100s of kHz on perfboard is perfectly
reasonable.

In the amateur radio community its common to see this style of construction
up into the 10MHz range.

On Sunday, June 28, 2020, madscientistatlarge <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf
> board?  I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of all
> components.  This would be a variable (digital programming) buck
> converter.  Current will be about 10A max, usually less.  Output noise and
> somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case.  Obviously I'd
> also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the
> concerns.  Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?  I
> know this is usually somewhat problematic.  Thanks.
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
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> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>


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Re: [EE]

Harold Hallikainen-3
High currents and "sharp edges" make minor inductances significant. I'd be
tempted to use a protoboard with a solid ground plane and some adhesive
backed copper strap for the fast high current portions of the circuit.

Harold

> Absolutely! The key is planning out the component placement and signal
> routing. As long as the design (schematic, etc.) is good, a hand-wired
> circuit operating at 10s or even 100s of kHz on perfboard is perfectly
> reasonable.
>
> In the amateur radio community its common to see this style of
> construction
> up into the 10MHz range.
>
> On Sunday, June 28, 2020, madscientistatlarge <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf
>> board?  I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of
>> all
>> components.  This would be a variable (digital programming) buck
>> converter.  Current will be about 10A max, usually less.  Output noise
>> and
>> somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case.  Obviously
>> I'd
>> also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the
>> concerns.  Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?
>> I
>> know this is usually somewhat problematic.  Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
>
>
> --
> Jason White
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>


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Re: [EE]

David Van Horn
Yup.  Manhattan style is probably better than perfboard here.

________________________________
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of Harold Hallikainen <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:51 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [EE]

High currents and "sharp edges" make minor inductances significant. I'd be
tempted to use a protoboard with a solid ground plane and some adhesive
backed copper strap for the fast high current portions of the circuit.

Harold

> Absolutely! The key is planning out the component placement and signal
> routing. As long as the design (schematic, etc.) is good, a hand-wired
> circuit operating at 10s or even 100s of kHz on perfboard is perfectly
> reasonable.
>
> In the amateur radio community its common to see this style of
> construction
> up into the 10MHz range.
>
> On Sunday, June 28, 2020, madscientistatlarge <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf
>> board?  I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of
>> all
>> components.  This would be a variable (digital programming) buck
>> converter.  Current will be about 10A max, usually less.  Output noise
>> and
>> somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case.  Obviously
>> I'd
>> also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the
>> concerns.  Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?
>> I
>> know this is usually somewhat problematic.  Thanks.
>>
>>
>> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
>> View/change your membership options at
>> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>>
>
>
> --
> Jason White
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>


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Re: [EE]

madscientistatlarge
What is "Manhattan style"?  I've heard of "dead bug" style over copper clad, but not "Manhattan".  I'm always looking for clever ways to do things.  I had already planed on using copper strip on the high current loops.  I'll definitely be using a 2 stage filter on the output and at least one stage on the input.


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Monday, June 29, 2020 9:48 AM, David Van Horn <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yup. Manhattan style is probably better than perfboard here.
>
> From: [hidden email] [hidden email] on behalf of Harold Hallikainen [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:51 PM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [EE]
>
> High currents and "sharp edges" make minor inductances significant. I'd be
> tempted to use a protoboard with a solid ground plane and some adhesive
> backed copper strap for the fast high current portions of the circuit.
>
> Harold
>
> > Absolutely! The key is planning out the component placement and signal
> > routing. As long as the design (schematic, etc.) is good, a hand-wired
> > circuit operating at 10s or even 100s of kHz on perfboard is perfectly
> > reasonable.
> > In the amateur radio community its common to see this style of
> > construction
> > up into the 10MHz range.
> > On Sunday, June 28, 2020, madscientistatlarge <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf
> > > board? I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of
> > > all
> > > components. This would be a variable (digital programming) buck
> > > converter. Current will be about 10A max, usually less. Output noise
> > > and
> > > somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case. Obviously
> > > I'd
> > > also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the
> > > concerns. Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?
> > > I
> > > know this is usually somewhat problematic. Thanks.
> > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> > --
> > Jason White
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
> --
>
> FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
> Not sent from an iPhone.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> View/change your membership options at
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Re: [EE]

Byron Jeff
http://www.sdmakersguild.org/the-art-of-manhattan-style-circuit-construction/

Talks about Manhattan, dead bug, live bug too.

BAJ

On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 10:53:50PM +0000, madscientistatlarge wrote:

> What is "Manhattan style"?  I've heard of "dead bug" style over copper clad, but not "Manhattan".  I'm always looking for clever ways to do things.  I had already planed on using copper strip on the high current loops.  I'll definitely be using a 2 stage filter on the output and at least one stage on the input.
>
>
> Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
>
> ????????????????????? Original Message ?????????????????????
> On Monday, June 29, 2020 9:48 AM, David Van Horn <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Yup. Manhattan style is probably better than perfboard here.
> >
> > From: [hidden email] [hidden email] on behalf of Harold Hallikainen [hidden email]
> > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:51 PM
> > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [EE]
> >
> > High currents and "sharp edges" make minor inductances significant. I'd be
> > tempted to use a protoboard with a solid ground plane and some adhesive
> > backed copper strap for the fast high current portions of the circuit.
> >
> > Harold
> >
> > > Absolutely! The key is planning out the component placement and signal
> > > routing. As long as the design (schematic, etc.) is good, a hand-wired
> > > circuit operating at 10s or even 100s of kHz on perfboard is perfectly
> > > reasonable.
> > > In the amateur radio community its common to see this style of
> > > construction
> > > up into the 10MHz range.
> > > On Sunday, June 28, 2020, madscientistatlarge <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf
> > > > board? I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of
> > > > all
> > > > components. This would be a variable (digital programming) buck
> > > > converter. Current will be about 10A max, usually less. Output noise
> > > > and
> > > > somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case. Obviously
> > > > I'd
> > > > also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the
> > > > concerns. Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?
> > > > I
> > > > know this is usually somewhat problematic. Thanks.
> > > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > > View/change your membership options at
> > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jason White
> > >
> > > ---------------
> > >
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> > --
> >
> > FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
> > Not sent from an iPhone.
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
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> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
>
>
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--
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Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
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Re: [EE]

madscientistatlarge
Thank you!  Very good information.  I'd also considered the Live bug approach, specifically for chips that need a thermal pad under the chip.  I've used a lot of the tricks mentioned, but it's good to know what they are called and how others have been clever.


Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Thursday, July 2, 2020 4:58 PM, Byron Jeff <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://www.sdmakersguild.org/the-art-of-manhattan-style-circuit-construction/
>
> Talks about Manhattan, dead bug, live bug too.
>
> BAJ
>
> On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 10:53:50PM +0000, madscientistatlarge wrote:
>
> > What is "Manhattan style"? I've heard of "dead bug" style over copper clad, but not "Manhattan". I'm always looking for clever ways to do things. I had already planed on using copper strip on the high current loops. I'll definitely be using a 2 stage filter on the output and at least one stage on the input.
> > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > ????????????????????? Original Message ?????????????????????
> > On Monday, June 29, 2020 9:48 AM, David Van Horn [hidden email] wrote:
> >
> > > Yup. Manhattan style is probably better than perfboard here.
> > > From: [hidden email] [hidden email] on behalf of Harold Hallikainen [hidden email]
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2020 4:51 PM
> > > To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. [hidden email]
> > > Subject: Re: [EE]
> > > High currents and "sharp edges" make minor inductances significant. I'd be
> > > tempted to use a protoboard with a solid ground plane and some adhesive
> > > backed copper strap for the fast high current portions of the circuit.
> > > Harold
> > >
> > > > Absolutely! The key is planning out the component placement and signal
> > > > routing. As long as the design (schematic, etc.) is good, a hand-wired
> > > > circuit operating at 10s or even 100s of kHz on perfboard is perfectly
> > > > reasonable.
> > > > In the amateur radio community its common to see this style of
> > > > construction
> > > > up into the 10MHz range.
> > > > On Sunday, June 28, 2020, madscientistatlarge <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is it at all reasonable to build a switching power supply on a perf
> > > > > board? I plan to use heavy gauge wire and properly fix the location of
> > > > > all
> > > > > components. This would be a variable (digital programming) buck
> > > > > converter. Current will be about 10A max, usually less. Output noise
> > > > > and
> > > > > somewhat poor regulation are acceptable to me in this case. Obviously
> > > > > I'd
> > > > > also be running it at 10's of kilohertz as well to mitigate some of the
> > > > > concerns. Is it reasonable if I use a proto-board with a ground plane?
> > > > > I
> > > > > know this is usually somewhat problematic. Thanks.
> > > > > Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > > > View/change your membership options at
> > > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Jason White
> > > >
> > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > > View/change your membership options at
> > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> > > --
> > > FCC Rules Updated Daily at http://www.hallikainen.com
> > > Not sent from an iPhone.
> > >
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
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> > >
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
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> > View/change your membership options at
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>
> --
>
> Byron A. Jeff
> Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
> College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> Clayton State University
> http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
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