Lithium battery confusion.

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
7 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Lithium battery confusion.

David C Brown
I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola - which
is marked
3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.

I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.

And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be suitable.
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[EE] Re: Lithium battery confusion.

Dwayne Reid
Topic tag added

Russell M is probably best to answer this but I'll pass on what I've
learned over the years.

As far as I know, standard Li-Ion and Lipo cells have almost
identical chemistry.  There used to be a slight difference between
cells from different manufacturers in the anode material used.  This
lead to different nominal voltages (3.6V xs 3.7V) where the maximum
charge voltage was 4.1V for the 3.6V cell and 4.2V for the 3.7V cell.

Also as far as I know, most Li-Ion and Lipo cells are now of the 3.7V
nominal voltage version.

Do note that I am NOT talking about the LIFEPO4 cells (3.2V nominal).

The charger module that you linked to seems entirely
appropriate.  Stupid expensive, though.  There are far less expensive
ready-made chargers available from Oh So Many Asian suppliers.

Or - you could roll your own with free samples from Microchip.  I use
their MCP73831T-2DCI/OT in two of the products that we have built in
the past.  Less than Can $0.50 in 25 lot or free if you ask Microchip nicely.

dwayne


At 11:01 AM 10/6/2020, David C Brown wrote:

>I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola - which
>is marked
>3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.
>
>I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
>chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.
>
>And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be suitable.
>__________________________________________
>David C Brown
>43 Bings Road
>Whaley Bridge
>High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
>Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
>SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
><http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>


--
Dwayne Reid   <[hidden email]>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [EE] Re: Lithium battery confusion.

David C Brown
Thanks for that.
Yres the ADAFRUIT charger is expensive but I can have one on Thursday
rather than waiting six weeks for one to come from Asia and turn out to be
mechanically incompatible.  Go the teeshirt on that.

__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*


On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 at 19:54, Dwayne Reid <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Topic tag added
>
> Russell M is probably best to answer this but I'll pass on what I've
> learned over the years.
>
> As far as I know, standard Li-Ion and Lipo cells have almost
> identical chemistry.  There used to be a slight difference between
> cells from different manufacturers in the anode material used.  This
> lead to different nominal voltages (3.6V xs 3.7V) where the maximum
> charge voltage was 4.1V for the 3.6V cell and 4.2V for the 3.7V cell.
>
> Also as far as I know, most Li-Ion and Lipo cells are now of the 3.7V
> nominal voltage version.
>
> Do note that I am NOT talking about the LIFEPO4 cells (3.2V nominal).
>
> The charger module that you linked to seems entirely
> appropriate.  Stupid expensive, though.  There are far less expensive
> ready-made chargers available from Oh So Many Asian suppliers.
>
> Or - you could roll your own with free samples from Microchip.  I use
> their MCP73831T-2DCI/OT in two of the products that we have built in
> the past.  Less than Can $0.50 in 25 lot or free if you ask Microchip
> nicely.
>
> dwayne
>
>
> At 11:01 AM 10/6/2020, David C Brown wrote:
> >I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola -
> which
> >is marked
> >3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.
> >
> >I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
> >chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.
> >
> >And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be suitable.
> >__________________________________________
> >David C Brown
> >43 Bings Road
> >Whaley Bridge
> >High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> >Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> >SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> ><http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
> --
> Dwayne Reid   <[hidden email]>
> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
> 780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
> www.trinity-electronics.com
> Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [EE] Re: Lithium battery confusion.

Denny Esterline-2
Don't know about your side of the pond, but around here I can get Amazon
Prime, sometimes the same day. They can get me these:
https://www.amazon.com/Mudder-Pieces-Charging-Battery-Protection/dp/B087Q915LF/
20 pieces for $10 US.
Many other options available in the same approximate price range.

-Denny




On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:37 PM David C Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks for that.
> Yres the ADAFRUIT charger is expensive but I can have one on Thursday
> rather than waiting six weeks for one to come from Asia and turn out to be
> mechanically incompatible.  Go the teeshirt on that.
>
> __________________________________________
> David C Brown
> 43 Bings Road
> Whaley Bridge
> High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
>
> *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
>
>
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 at 19:54, Dwayne Reid <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Topic tag added
> >
> > Russell M is probably best to answer this but I'll pass on what I've
> > learned over the years.
> >
> > As far as I know, standard Li-Ion and Lipo cells have almost
> > identical chemistry.  There used to be a slight difference between
> > cells from different manufacturers in the anode material used.  This
> > lead to different nominal voltages (3.6V xs 3.7V) where the maximum
> > charge voltage was 4.1V for the 3.6V cell and 4.2V for the 3.7V cell.
> >
> > Also as far as I know, most Li-Ion and Lipo cells are now of the 3.7V
> > nominal voltage version.
> >
> > Do note that I am NOT talking about the LIFEPO4 cells (3.2V nominal).
> >
> > The charger module that you linked to seems entirely
> > appropriate.  Stupid expensive, though.  There are far less expensive
> > ready-made chargers available from Oh So Many Asian suppliers.
> >
> > Or - you could roll your own with free samples from Microchip.  I use
> > their MCP73831T-2DCI/OT in two of the products that we have built in
> > the past.  Less than Can $0.50 in 25 lot or free if you ask Microchip
> > nicely.
> >
> > dwayne
> >
> >
> > At 11:01 AM 10/6/2020, David C Brown wrote:
> > >I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola -
> > which
> > >is marked
> > >3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.
> > >
> > >I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
> > >chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.
> > >
> > >And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be suitable.
> > >__________________________________________
> > >David C Brown
> > >43 Bings Road
> > >Whaley Bridge
> > >High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> > >Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> > >SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> > ><http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dwayne Reid   <[hidden email]>
> > Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
> > 780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
> > www.trinity-electronics.com
> > Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing
> >
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [EE] Re: Lithium battery confusion.

Neil
In reply to this post by Dwayne Reid
A couple years ago, I had issues charging "standard" LiPo batteries to 4.2V.
Turns out the batteries (very low-cost ones from China) just would not
get to 4.2V, so charge-done was never indicated.  They only charge to 4.1V.
IIRC it was a Microchip 73833 chip, and further investigation revealed
that I could get the charger chips (for the same LiPo technology) in
different pack voltages -- 4.1V, 4.2V, etc.
So IME there are possible variations even for the same technology.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On 10/6/2020 2:52 PM, Dwayne Reid wrote:

> Topic tag added
>
> Russell M is probably best to answer this but I'll pass on what I've
> learned over the years.
>
> As far as I know, standard Li-Ion and Lipo cells have almost
> identical chemistry.  There used to be a slight difference between
> cells from different manufacturers in the anode material used.  This
> lead to different nominal voltages (3.6V xs 3.7V) where the maximum
> charge voltage was 4.1V for the 3.6V cell and 4.2V for the 3.7V cell.
>
> Also as far as I know, most Li-Ion and Lipo cells are now of the 3.7V
> nominal voltage version.
>
> Do note that I am NOT talking about the LIFEPO4 cells (3.2V nominal).
>
> The charger module that you linked to seems entirely
> appropriate.  Stupid expensive, though.  There are far less expensive
> ready-made chargers available from Oh So Many Asian suppliers.
>
> Or - you could roll your own with free samples from Microchip.  I use
> their MCP73831T-2DCI/OT in two of the products that we have built in
> the past.  Less than Can $0.50 in 25 lot or free if you ask Microchip nicely.
>
> dwayne
>
>
> At 11:01 AM 10/6/2020, David C Brown wrote:
>> I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola - which
>> is marked
>> 3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.
>>
>> I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
>> chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.
>>
>> And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be suitable.
>> __________________________________________
>> David C Brown
>> 43 Bings Road
>> Whaley Bridge
>> High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
>> Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
>> SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
>> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>

--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [EE] Re: Lithium battery confusion.

David C Brown
In reply to this post by Denny Esterline-2
Thanks Danny.   That will do nicely.  Five pieces for £3 over here.
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*


On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 at 20:55, Denny Esterline <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don't know about your side of the pond, but around here I can get Amazon
> Prime, sometimes the same day. They can get me these:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Mudder-Pieces-Charging-Battery-Protection/dp/B087Q915LF/
> 20 pieces for $10 US.
> Many other options available in the same approximate price range.
>
> -Denny
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:37 PM David C Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that.
> > Yres the ADAFRUIT charger is expensive but I can have one on Thursday
> > rather than waiting six weeks for one to come from Asia and turn out to
> be
> > mechanically incompatible.  Go the teeshirt on that.
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > David C Brown
> > 43 Bings Road
> > Whaley Bridge
> > High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> > Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> > SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> > <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
> >
> >
> >
> > *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 at 19:54, Dwayne Reid <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Topic tag added
> > >
> > > Russell M is probably best to answer this but I'll pass on what I've
> > > learned over the years.
> > >
> > > As far as I know, standard Li-Ion and Lipo cells have almost
> > > identical chemistry.  There used to be a slight difference between
> > > cells from different manufacturers in the anode material used.  This
> > > lead to different nominal voltages (3.6V xs 3.7V) where the maximum
> > > charge voltage was 4.1V for the 3.6V cell and 4.2V for the 3.7V cell.
> > >
> > > Also as far as I know, most Li-Ion and Lipo cells are now of the 3.7V
> > > nominal voltage version.
> > >
> > > Do note that I am NOT talking about the LIFEPO4 cells (3.2V nominal).
> > >
> > > The charger module that you linked to seems entirely
> > > appropriate.  Stupid expensive, though.  There are far less expensive
> > > ready-made chargers available from Oh So Many Asian suppliers.
> > >
> > > Or - you could roll your own with free samples from Microchip.  I use
> > > their MCP73831T-2DCI/OT in two of the products that we have built in
> > > the past.  Less than Can $0.50 in 25 lot or free if you ask Microchip
> > > nicely.
> > >
> > > dwayne
> > >
> > >
> > > At 11:01 AM 10/6/2020, David C Brown wrote:
> > > >I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola -
> > > which
> > > >is marked
> > > >3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.
> > > >
> > > >I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
> > > >chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.
> > > >
> > > >And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be
> suitable.
> > > >__________________________________________
> > > >David C Brown
> > > >43 Bings Road
> > > >Whaley Bridge
> > > >High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> > > >Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> > > >SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> > > ><http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dwayne Reid   <[hidden email]>
> > > Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
> > > 780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
> > > www.trinity-electronics.com
> > > Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [EE] Re: Lithium battery confusion.

Clint Jay
In reply to this post by Dwayne Reid
3.8V cells are now being used in Laptop battery packs

On Tue, 6 Oct 2020 at 19:54, Dwayne Reid <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Topic tag added
>
> Russell M is probably best to answer this but I'll pass on what I've
> learned over the years.
>
> As far as I know, standard Li-Ion and Lipo cells have almost
> identical chemistry.  There used to be a slight difference between
> cells from different manufacturers in the anode material used.  This
> lead to different nominal voltages (3.6V xs 3.7V) where the maximum
> charge voltage was 4.1V for the 3.6V cell and 4.2V for the 3.7V cell.
>
> Also as far as I know, most Li-Ion and Lipo cells are now of the 3.7V
> nominal voltage version.
>
> Do note that I am NOT talking about the LIFEPO4 cells (3.2V nominal).
>
> The charger module that you linked to seems entirely
> appropriate.  Stupid expensive, though.  There are far less expensive
> ready-made chargers available from Oh So Many Asian suppliers.
>
> Or - you could roll your own with free samples from Microchip.  I use
> their MCP73831T-2DCI/OT in two of the products that we have built in
> the past.  Less than Can $0.50 in 25 lot or free if you ask Microchip
> nicely.
>
> dwayne
>
>
> At 11:01 AM 10/6/2020, David C Brown wrote:
> >I have cell phone  battery from a reputable manufacturer - Motorola -
> which
> >is marked
> >3.8v Lithium Ion Polymer battery.  And I am seeking a charger module.
> >
> >I was under the impression that Li-ion and Li-poly were different
> >chemistries which require different charging regimes.  Is that not so.
> >
> >And would this simple module https://tinyurl.com/y48gp4hu be suitable.
> >__________________________________________
> >David C Brown
> >43 Bings Road
> >Whaley Bridge
> >High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> >Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> >SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> ><http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
> --
> Dwayne Reid   <[hidden email]>
> Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
> 780-489-3199 voice   780-487-6397 fax   888-489-3199 Toll Free
> www.trinity-electronics.com
> Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>


--
Clint. M0UAW IO83

*No trees were harmed in the sending of this mail. However, a large number
of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.*
--
http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
View/change your membership options at
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist