New USB PICs...

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New USB PICs...

William Westfield
http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/09/20/microchip-expands-usb-portfolio-with-fifteen-new-8-bit-pic-mcus/
http://www.microchip.com/pagehandler/en-us/press-release/microchip-expands-usb-portfoli.html

Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F varieties down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550 and 2550, and larger 18F varieties.

I don't see a crystal free version of the 18F14K50/MCP2200, though.

BillW

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Re: New USB PICs...

M.L.-2
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM, William "Chops" Westfield
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/09/20/microchip-expands-usb-portfolio-with-fifteen-new-8-bit-pic-mcus/
> http://www.microchip.com/pagehandler/en-us/press-release/microchip-expands-usb-portfoli.html
>
> Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F varieties down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550 and 2550, and larger 18F varieties.
>
> I don't see a crystal free version of the 18F14K50/MCP2200, though.
>
> BillW

I knew they mentioned this at Masters two years ago but nobody would
tell me anything about it until now!
This is great news for mid-volume USB products.
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Re: New USB PICs...

David Cannings
On 2012-09-24 13:20, M.L. wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM, William "Chops" Westfield
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> http://dangerousprototypes.com/2012/09/20/microchip-expands-usb-portfolio-with-fifteen-new-8-bit-pic-mcus/
>>
>> http://www.microchip.com/pagehandler/en-us/press-release/microchip-expands-usb-portfoli.html
>>
>> Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F
>> varieties down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550
>> and 2550, and larger 18F varieties.
>>
>> I don't see a crystal free version of the 18F14K50/MCP2200, though.
>>
>> BillW
>
> I knew they mentioned this at Masters two years ago but nobody would
> tell me anything about it until now!
> This is great news for mid-volume USB products.

Typical, just as I bought a bunch of 18F2550 for testing!  These new
products look very good.

Does anybody know what the status of Microchip's USB libraries and XC8
is?  Do they have to be compiled in "C18" or a compatibility mode?  Or
do they just work?  It might be time for me to finally stop using serial
for some things.

David
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Re: New USB PICs...

Matt Bennett-3
On Mon, September 24, 2012 8:42 am, David wrote:

> Typical, just as I bought a bunch of 18F2550 for testing!  These new
> products look very good.
>
> Does anybody know what the status of Microchip's USB libraries and XC8
> is?  Do they have to be compiled in "C18" or a compatibility mode?  Or
> do they just work?  It might be time for me to finally stop using serial
> for some things.

The PIC18 USB parts are still compiling under C18 (in the 2012-08-22
version of the MAL/MLA), but the newest parts are PIC16F1xxx- all of those
are XC8.

Matt Bennett
Just outside of Austin, TX
30.51,-97.91

The views I express are my own, not that of my employer, a large
multinational corporation that you are familiar with.
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Re: New USB PICs...

David Cannings
On 2012-09-24 15:26, Matt Bennett wrote:

> On Mon, September 24, 2012 8:42 am, David wrote:
>> Does anybody know what the status of Microchip's USB libraries and
>> XC8
>> is?  Do they have to be compiled in "C18" or a compatibility mode?  
>> Or
>> do they just work?  It might be time for me to finally stop using
>> serial
>> for some things.
>
> The PIC18 USB parts are still compiling under C18 (in the 2012-08-22
> version of the MAL/MLA), but the newest parts are PIC16F1xxx- all of
> those
> are XC8.

Thanks Matt.  Is there likely to be an XC8 version of the MAL/MLA for
PIC18?

I appreciate this is no easy task and wont fit well with backward
compatibility.

David
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RE: New USB PICs...

Alan Pearce - UKRI STFC
> Thanks Matt.  Is there likely to be an XC8 version of the MAL/MLA for PIC18?
>
> I appreciate this is no easy task and wont fit well with backward compatibility.
>

I'm not Matt, but my understanding is the current version of the MAL should compile under either compiler.


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Re: New USB PICs...

Matt Bennett-3
In reply to this post by David Cannings
On Mon, September 24, 2012 9:48 am, David wrote:

> On 2012-09-24 15:26, Matt Bennett wrote:
>> The PIC18 USB parts are still compiling under C18 (in the 2012-08-22
>> version of the MAL/MLA), but the newest parts are PIC16F1xxx- all of
>> those
>> are XC8.
>
> Thanks Matt.  Is there likely to be an XC8 version of the MAL/MLA for
> PIC18?
>
> I appreciate this is no easy task and wont fit well with backward
> compatibility.

I believe that the plan is for the XCxx compilers to cover everything that
is regularly updated, like the MLA- that includes XC8 to cover all the 8
bit USB C code. I just don't know when.

I expect that the capability is all there, it's just a matter of porting
from C18 to XC8, and doing that in a systematic, well tested way is the
challenge.

Matt Bennett
Just outside of Austin, TX
30.51,-97.91

The views I express are my own, not that of my employer, a large
multinational corporation that you are familiar with.
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Re: New USB PICs...

Peter Johansson-9
In reply to this post by William Westfield
On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM, William "Chops" Westfield
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F varieties down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550 and 2550, and larger 18F varieties.

One blurb I read mentions that these chips only obtain 0.25% accuracy
when actively connected to USB.  Does this mean they are synchronizing
to the timebase in the USB host?

-p.
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Re: New USB PICs...

Jan-Erik Söderholm


Peter Johansson wrote 2012-09-24 20:04:
> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:44 PM, William "Chops" Westfield
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F varieties down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550 and 2550, and larger 18F varieties.
>
> One blurb I read mentions that these chips only obtain 0.25% accuracy
> when actively connected to USB.  Does this mean they are synchronizing
> to the timebase in the USB host?
>

They sync/lock INTOSC to the USB signal.


> -p.
>
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Re: New USB PICs...

picram
In reply to this post by Peter Johansson-9
>> Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F varieties
>> down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550 and 2550, and
>> larger 18F varieties.
>
> One blurb I read mentions that these chips only obtain 0.25% accuracy
> when actively connected to USB.  Does this mean they are synchronizing
> to the timebase in the USB host?

My understanding is that this is true for the smaller chips.

The 64/80/100 pin chips appear to have their own accurate clock.

I could be wrong...

-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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Re: New USB PICs...

Jan-Erik Söderholm


Bob Ammerman wrote 2012-09-24 20:29:

>>> Fifteen new PICs with crystal-free USB operation.  Includes 16F varieties
>>> down to 14 pins, 18F "replacements" for the venerable 4550 and 2550, and
>>> larger 18F varieties.
>>
>> One blurb I read mentions that these chips only obtain 0.25% accuracy
>> when actively connected to USB.  Does this mean they are synchronizing
>> to the timebase in the USB host?
>
> My understanding is that this is true for the smaller chips.
>
> The 64/80/100 pin chips appear to have their own accurate clock.
>
> I could be wrong...
>
> -- Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
>

According to "TABLE 2-5: OSCILLATOR CONFIGURATION OPTIONS FOR
USB OPERATION" in the datasheet for the "PIC18F87J50 FAMILY":
http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/DeviceDoc/39775c.pdf

all USB compatible oscillator settings uses EC (External clock)
or HS (High speed crystal), sometimes with PLL. So no fully
internal osciallator config in that case, at least.

Jan-Erik.

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RE: New USB PICs...

David Cannings
In reply to this post by Alan Pearce - UKRI STFC
On 2012-09-24 16:13, [hidden email] wrote:
>> Thanks Matt.  Is there likely to be an XC8 version of the MAL/MLA
>> for PIC18?
>>
>> I appreciate this is no easy task and wont fit well with backward
>> compatibility.
>>
>
> I'm not Matt, but my understanding is the current version of the MAL
> should compile under either compiler.

This may be correct, I see the following in the most recent changelog:

"This release includes support for MPLAB® XC16 and XC32 compilers."

No word on XC8 in there, but it might be in a previous changelog.

David
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C new users guide

Steve Smith
In reply to this post by Jan-Erik Söderholm
Ok I have forced myself to admit that 'C' has its place and programming a
24f in ASM is probably a bit of a stretch....

I need a pointer or two to a few basic guides to 'C' as I have always
written in ASM all the way back to the Sinclair Science of Cambridge MK14...
(1979 I think) and a little bit of basic on a commodore pet (with a non
qwerty keyboard)

All suggestions gratefully received

Thanks
Steve


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Re: C new users guide

Alex Harford
The C Programming Language by K&R.

It's a small book but it's all you need if you already know ASM.

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I need a pointer or two to a few basic guides to 'C' as I have always
> written in ASM all the way back to the Sinclair Science of Cambridge MK14...
> (1979 I think) and a little bit of basic on a commodore pet (with a non
> qwerty keyboard)
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Re: C new users guide

John Gardner
In reply to this post by Steve Smith
Possibly useful:

http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/c-tutorial.html
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Re: C new users guide

João Carneiro
In reply to this post by Alex Harford
I would take a good look at the C compiler manuals, to understand the
various quirks and details...

K & R was my intro to C.

Best regards,

JC

2012/9/25 Alex Harford <[hidden email]>

> The C Programming Language by K&R.
>
> It's a small book but it's all you need if you already know ASM.
>
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I need a pointer or two to a few basic guides to 'C' as I have always
> > written in ASM all the way back to the Sinclair Science of Cambridge
> MK14...
> > (1979 I think) and a little bit of basic on a commodore pet (with a non
> > qwerty keyboard)
> --
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>
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Re: C new users guide

Glen Wiley
In reply to this post by John Gardner
"C by Dissection" is a great book - I have known a few folks to have self
taught C from that book.

On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 1:04 PM, John Gardner <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Possibly useful:
>
> http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial/c-tutorial.html
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to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." - Antoine de
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Re: C new users guide

Tamas Rudnai
In reply to this post by Alex Harford
I agree with the K&R book, alternatively you can find tons of free C
tutorials by google, for example this one looks good at the first glance:

http://www.iu.hio.no/~mark/CTutorial/CTutorial.html

This is for PIC and C, although Micro C -- the basics are the same for all
C implementations anyway:

http://www.mikroe.com/products/view/285/book-pic-microcontrollers-programming-in-c/

Tamas



On 25 September 2012 09:59, Alex Harford <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The C Programming Language by K&R.
>
> It's a small book but it's all you need if you already know ASM.
>
> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Steve Smith <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > I need a pointer or two to a few basic guides to 'C' as I have always
> > written in ASM all the way back to the Sinclair Science of Cambridge
> MK14...
> > (1979 I think) and a little bit of basic on a commodore pet (with a non
> > qwerty keyboard)
> --
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> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>



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int main() { char *a,*s,*q; printf(s="int main() { char *a,*s,*q;
printf(s=%s%s%s, q=%s%s%s%s,s,q,q,a=%s%s%s%s,q,q,q,a,a,q); }",
q="\"",s,q,q,a="\\",q,q,q,a,a,q); }
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RE: C new users guide

Alan Pearce - UKRI STFC
In reply to this post by Steve Smith
> Ok I have forced myself to admit that 'C' has its place and programming a 24f in ASM
> is probably a bit of a stretch....
>
> I need a pointer or two to a few basic guides to 'C' as I have always written in ASM
> all the way back to the Sinclair Science of Cambridge MK14...
> (1979 I think) and a little bit of basic on a commodore pet (with a non qwerty
> keyboard)
>
> All suggestions gratefully received

One place to start is probably the "Programming 16 Bit Controllers in C" subtitled "Learning to Fly the PIC24" which develops a project on an Explorer 16 dev Board with the PIC24FJ256GA110 chip, but the website that goes with the book has updates and code adapted for other processors that have Explorer 16 PIMs. Available through Amazon and possibly Microchip.

When wanting to know the syntax for a specific standard C command I found this HP document useful

http://docs.hp.com/en/B3901-90007/B3901-90007.pdf but it doesn't seem to reside there anymore.

Doing a Google for "HPUX C Manual B3901-90007" took me direct to a link to a copy at citeseerx.ist.psu.edu (3rd link down when I searched), but I can't put the whole link in as it has all sorts of Google rubbish in it. That gave me syntax for almost anything that I got confused on, as the microchip documents are pretty clear for most of their C statements that deal with port handling, and extensions to do with interrupt declarations and RAM handling due to the architecture and non-linear addressing.



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Re: C new users guide

John Ferrell
In reply to this post by Steve Smith
As others have said "k&r the c programming language" is the best place
to start and may be stay.
Try to avoid the excessive use of includes and headers & such that muddy
up the actual code. Some includes are essential to get at common functions.
Note that the "define" directive will let you make things look the way
you want. I have seen programmers change brackets to begin & end statements.

It gets complicated if you choose to use a compiler with its own unique
GUI. c is as complicated or simple as you choose!

On 9/25/2012 12:53 PM, Steve Smith wrote:

> Ok I have forced myself to admit that 'C' has its place and programming a
> 24f in ASM is probably a bit of a stretch....
>
> I need a pointer or two to a few basic guides to 'C' as I have always
> written in ASM all the way back to the Sinclair Science of Cambridge MK14...
> (1979 I think) and a little bit of basic on a commodore pet (with a non
> qwerty keyboard)
>
> All suggestions gratefully received
>
> Thanks
> Steve
>
>

--
John Ferrell W8CCW
“During times of universal deceit,
   Telling the TRUTH becomes a revolutionary act”
      George Orwell


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