[OT] Solar p;anels

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[OT] Solar p;anels

David C Brown
I am contemplating fitting a solar panel tp provide lighting for my stables.
I looked up the recommended angle for mounting the panel and was a little
surprised.

Azimuth south makes sense but elevation equal to latitude puzzles me since
the sun rarely reaches that elevation.  Here at latitude 53N, my
calculation is that even at the solstice the sun exceeds that elevation for
only four hours.  And that from August to May it never exceeds that
elevation

What am I miosunderstanding
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

David C Brown
Just realised that what I am missing is that it is the complement of the
panel's angle which is important
.Collapse of stout party
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



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On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 13:07, David C Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am contemplating fitting a solar panel tp provide lighting for my
> stables.
> I looked up the recommended angle for mounting the panel and was a little
> surprised.
>
> Azimuth south makes sense but elevation equal to latitude puzzles me since
> the sun rarely reaches that elevation.  Here at latitude 53N, my
> calculation is that even at the solstice the sun exceeds that elevation for
> only four hours.  And that from August to May it never exceeds that
> elevation
>
> What am I miosunderstanding
> __________________________________________
> David C Brown
> 43 Bings Road
> Whaley Bridge
> High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
>
> *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free.
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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

Forrest Christian (List Account)
In reply to this post by David C Brown
If you're looking at an off-grid application, generally you want to point
the panel such that it's most efficient on the shortest day of the year,
and engineer for that.

Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where the sun is on
solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that, then the
rest of the year you're golden.

Note that this means that if you are looking at a chart to maximize the
total solar output over the year you should throw the chart out.   These
are only good for grid-tied applications, and will tell you to point at a
different angle since you're optimizing for maximum year-long-total-output.

There's a nice chart at
https://offgridpermaculture.com/Off_Grid_Energy/Solar_Panel_Tilt_Angle_for_Maximum_Power_On_Grid_Off_Grid_Systems.html
which shows the power production for each day of the year at various
angles.  You'll note that latitude-15 is the best for December, and the
rest of the year is better than that.






On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:17 AM David C Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am contemplating fitting a solar panel tp provide lighting for my
> stables.
> I looked up the recommended angle for mounting the panel and was a little
> surprised.
>
> Azimuth south makes sense but elevation equal to latitude puzzles me since
> the sun rarely reaches that elevation.  Here at latitude 53N, my
> calculation is that even at the solstice the sun exceeds that elevation for
> only four hours.  And that from August to May it never exceeds that
> elevation
>
> What am I miosunderstanding
> __________________________________________
> David C Brown
> 43 Bings Road
> Whaley Bridge
> High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
>
> *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
>
> <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

Gordon Williams-3
Hmm - I think the labels may be wrong on the graph.

Why would it not be latitude PLUS 23.5 deg rather than minus 15 deg as
you suggest for max power in winter?

You want them MORE angled up to get the sun as it is closer to the
horizon in winter, not more parallel to the ground.

Wouldn't the panel perform best when it is perpendicular to the suns
rays at the winter solstice?

Gord Williams


On 2020-12-15 9:31 a.m., Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where the sun is on
> solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that, then the
> rest of the year you're golden.
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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

James Cameron-2
Also depends on what time of the year you need the most power.

In my location, that's the middle of summer, i.e. now.

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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

David C Brown
The installation is needed to provide light for settling the horses at
about 1800.
So needed mainly October to March.
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



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On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 22:50, James Cameron <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Also depends on what time of the year you need the most power.
>
> In my location, that's the middle of summer, i.e. now.
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

Forrest Christian (List Account)
In reply to this post by Gordon Williams-3
Sorry, missed, this reply two days ago..

The sun is lower on the horizon during the winter, so you want it pointed
more at the horizon.

But first a bit of orientation:  The further north you go the higher the
latitude.   So 90* is at the horizon, i.e. vertical, and 0 degrees would be
at the sky.

So at 45 north yes, you'd want it at 45+15 or 60 degrees.

AT 50 north,  you'd want it at 45+15 or 65 degrees.

An old resource, but still pretty valid is at
nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf , it's data for different sites, and
will give you a multiplication factor which will tell you the average watts
you will get out of a panel mounted at a given angle in each month.   If
the figure is like 3.0 for a month, you can take your panel wattage (say
300) and multiply it by this figure (3), and get the number of watt hours a
day you'll get (900).  Note that there are average/min/max figures and this
data is from a range of years a while back.



On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:58 AM Gordon Williams <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hmm - I think the labels may be wrong on the graph.
>
> Why would it not be latitude PLUS 23.5 deg rather than minus 15 deg as
> you suggest for max power in winter?
>
> You want them MORE angled up to get the sun as it is closer to the
> horizon in winter, not more parallel to the ground.
>
> Wouldn't the panel perform best when it is perpendicular to the suns
> rays at the winter solstice?
>
> Gord Williams
>
>
> On 2020-12-15 9:31 a.m., Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> > Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where the sun is
> on
> > solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that, then the
> > rest of the year you're golden.
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>


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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

David C Brown
Thanks.  My confusion is mainly due to the fact,that, having worked
with radio telescopes for forty years, I think od pointing at the horizon
as being elevation zero
and pointing at the zenith as being elevation 90.  Having got that out of
my head I can understand things a little better..
That link is broken for me
__________________________________________
David C Brown
43 Bings Road
Whaley Bridge
High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
<http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>



*Sent from my etch-a-sketch*


On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 12:26, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry, missed, this reply two days ago..
>
> The sun is lower on the horizon during the winter, so you want it pointed
> more at the horizon.
>
> But first a bit of orientation:  The further north you go the higher the
> latitude.   So 90* is at the horizon, i.e. vertical, and 0 degrees would be
> at the sky.
>
> So at 45 north yes, you'd want it at 45+15 or 60 degrees.
>
> AT 50 north,  you'd want it at 45+15 or 65 degrees.
>
> An old resource, but still pretty valid is at
> nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf , it's data for different sites, and
> will give you a multiplication factor which will tell you the average watts
> you will get out of a panel mounted at a given angle in each month.   If
> the figure is like 3.0 for a month, you can take your panel wattage (say
> 300) and multiply it by this figure (3), and get the number of watt hours a
> day you'll get (900).  Note that there are average/min/max figures and this
> data is from a range of years a while back.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:58 AM Gordon Williams <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hmm - I think the labels may be wrong on the graph.
> >
> > Why would it not be latitude PLUS 23.5 deg rather than minus 15 deg as
> > you suggest for max power in winter?
> >
> > You want them MORE angled up to get the sun as it is closer to the
> > horizon in winter, not more parallel to the ground.
> >
> > Wouldn't the panel perform best when it is perpendicular to the suns
> > rays at the winter solstice?
> >
> > Gord Williams
> >
> >
> > On 2020-12-15 9:31 a.m., Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> > > Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where the sun
> is
> > on
> > > solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that, then
> the
> > > rest of the year you're golden.
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
>
>
> --
> - Forrest
> --
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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

Byron Jeff
Try: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf

That URL came up fine for me.

BAJ

On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 01:55:36PM +0000, David C Brown wrote:

> Thanks.  My confusion is mainly due to the fact,that, having worked
> with radio telescopes for forty years, I think od pointing at the horizon
> as being elevation zero
> and pointing at the zenith as being elevation 90.  Having got that out of
> my head I can understand things a little better..
> That link is broken for me
> __________________________________________
> David C Brown
> 43 Bings Road
> Whaley Bridge
> High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
>
>
>
> *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
>
>
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 12:26, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Sorry, missed, this reply two days ago..
> >
> > The sun is lower on the horizon during the winter, so you want it pointed
> > more at the horizon.
> >
> > But first a bit of orientation:  The further north you go the higher the
> > latitude.   So 90* is at the horizon, i.e. vertical, and 0 degrees would be
> > at the sky.
> >
> > So at 45 north yes, you'd want it at 45+15 or 60 degrees.
> >
> > AT 50 north,  you'd want it at 45+15 or 65 degrees.
> >
> > An old resource, but still pretty valid is at
> > nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf , it's data for different sites, and
> > will give you a multiplication factor which will tell you the average watts
> > you will get out of a panel mounted at a given angle in each month.   If
> > the figure is like 3.0 for a month, you can take your panel wattage (say
> > 300) and multiply it by this figure (3), and get the number of watt hours a
> > day you'll get (900).  Note that there are average/min/max figures and this
> > data is from a range of years a while back.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:58 AM Gordon Williams <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hmm - I think the labels may be wrong on the graph.
> > >
> > > Why would it not be latitude PLUS 23.5 deg rather than minus 15 deg as
> > > you suggest for max power in winter?
> > >
> > > You want them MORE angled up to get the sun as it is closer to the
> > > horizon in winter, not more parallel to the ground.
> > >
> > > Wouldn't the panel perform best when it is perpendicular to the suns
> > > rays at the winter solstice?
> > >
> > > Gord Williams
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2020-12-15 9:31 a.m., Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> > > > Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where the sun
> > is
> > > on
> > > > solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that, then
> > the
> > > > rest of the year you're golden.
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > - Forrest
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> >
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist

--
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Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
Clayton State University
http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

Alan Pearce
That link worked for me. I haven't gone looking to see if the data is
available online, the table for Annette, Alaska looks like it would
suit a UK installation.

On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 15:34, Byron Jeff <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Try: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf
>
> That URL came up fine for me.
>
> BAJ
>
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 01:55:36PM +0000, David C Brown wrote:
> > Thanks.  My confusion is mainly due to the fact,that, having worked
> > with radio telescopes for forty years, I think od pointing at the horizon
> > as being elevation zero
> > and pointing at the zenith as being elevation 90.  Having got that out of
> > my head I can understand things a little better..
> > That link is broken for me
> > __________________________________________
> > David C Brown
> > 43 Bings Road
> > Whaley Bridge
> > High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> > Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> > SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> > <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
> >
> >
> >
> > *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 12:26, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Sorry, missed, this reply two days ago..
> > >
> > > The sun is lower on the horizon during the winter, so you want it pointed
> > > more at the horizon.
> > >
> > > But first a bit of orientation:  The further north you go the higher the
> > > latitude.   So 90* is at the horizon, i.e. vertical, and 0 degrees would be
> > > at the sky.
> > >
> > > So at 45 north yes, you'd want it at 45+15 or 60 degrees.
> > >
> > > AT 50 north,  you'd want it at 45+15 or 65 degrees.
> > >
> > > An old resource, but still pretty valid is at
> > > nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf , it's data for different sites, and
> > > will give you a multiplication factor which will tell you the average watts
> > > you will get out of a panel mounted at a given angle in each month.   If
> > > the figure is like 3.0 for a month, you can take your panel wattage (say
> > > 300) and multiply it by this figure (3), and get the number of watt hours a
> > > day you'll get (900).  Note that there are average/min/max figures and this
> > > data is from a range of years a while back.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:58 AM Gordon Williams <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hmm - I think the labels may be wrong on the graph.
> > > >
> > > > Why would it not be latitude PLUS 23.5 deg rather than minus 15 deg as
> > > > you suggest for max power in winter?
> > > >
> > > > You want them MORE angled up to get the sun as it is closer to the
> > > > horizon in winter, not more parallel to the ground.
> > > >
> > > > Wouldn't the panel perform best when it is perpendicular to the suns
> > > > rays at the winter solstice?
> > > >
> > > > Gord Williams
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 2020-12-15 9:31 a.m., Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> > > > > Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where the sun
> > > is
> > > > on
> > > > > solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that, then
> > > the
> > > > > rest of the year you're golden.
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > > View/change your membership options at
> > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > - Forrest
> > > --
> > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > View/change your membership options at
> > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > >
> > --
> > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > View/change your membership options at
> > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
>
> --
> Byron A. Jeff
> Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information Technology
> College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> Clayton State University
> http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
> --
> http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> View/change your membership options at
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FTL
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RE: [OT] Solar p;anels

FTL
In reply to this post by Forrest Christian (List Account)
If you are some place that regularly has snow on the ground during the
winter, there is a significant amount of reflected light energy from the
snow, so being even more vertical may be advantageous to collect more of the
reflected energy. Also if there is significant snow, the more vertical the
panel, the less snow that will stay on the panel and the sooner it will
slide off.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of
> Forrest Christian (List Account)
> Sent: December 17, 2020 5:24 AM
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [OT] Solar p;anels
>
> Sorry, missed, this reply two days ago..
>
> The sun is lower on the horizon during the winter, so you want it pointed
> more at the horizon.
>
> But first a bit of orientation:  The further north you go the higher the
> latitude.   So 90* is at the horizon, i.e. vertical, and 0 degrees would
be
> at the sky.
>
> So at 45 north yes, you'd want it at 45+15 or 60 degrees.
>
> AT 50 north,  you'd want it at 45+15 or 65 degrees.

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Re: [OT] Solar p;anels

Richard Prosser
In reply to this post by Alan Pearce
So if you're at the equator is it +15 degrees or -15 degrees? Shouldn't the
15 degrees scale or something?

RP

On Fri, 18 Dec 2020 at 07:49, Alan Pearce <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> That link worked for me. I haven't gone looking to see if the data is
> available online, the table for Annette, Alaska looks like it would
> suit a UK installation.
>
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 15:34, Byron Jeff <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Try: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf
> >
> > That URL came up fine for me.
> >
> > BAJ
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 01:55:36PM +0000, David C Brown wrote:
> > > Thanks.  My confusion is mainly due to the fact,that, having worked
> > > with radio telescopes for forty years, I think od pointing at the
> horizon
> > > as being elevation zero
> > > and pointing at the zenith as being elevation 90.  Having got that out
> of
> > > my head I can understand things a little better..
> > > That link is broken for me
> > > __________________________________________
> > > David C Brown
> > > 43 Bings Road
> > > Whaley Bridge
> > > High Peak                           Phone: 01663 733236
> > > Derbyshire                eMail: [hidden email]
> > > SK23 7ND          web: www.bings-knowle.co.uk/dcb
> > > <http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~dcb>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Sent from my etch-a-sketch*
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 17 Dec 2020 at 12:26, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sorry, missed, this reply two days ago..
> > > >
> > > > The sun is lower on the horizon during the winter, so you want it
> pointed
> > > > more at the horizon.
> > > >
> > > > But first a bit of orientation:  The further north you go the higher
> the
> > > > latitude.   So 90* is at the horizon, i.e. vertical, and 0 degrees
> would be
> > > > at the sky.
> > > >
> > > > So at 45 north yes, you'd want it at 45+15 or 60 degrees.
> > > >
> > > > AT 50 north,  you'd want it at 45+15 or 65 degrees.
> > > >
> > > > An old resource, but still pretty valid is at
> > > > nrel.gov/docs/legosti/old/5607.pdf , it's data for different sites,
> and
> > > > will give you a multiplication factor which will tell you the
> average watts
> > > > you will get out of a panel mounted at a given angle in each month.
>  If
> > > > the figure is like 3.0 for a month, you can take your panel wattage
> (say
> > > > 300) and multiply it by this figure (3), and get the number of watt
> hours a
> > > > day you'll get (900).  Note that there are average/min/max figures
> and this
> > > > data is from a range of years a while back.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:58 AM Gordon Williams <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hmm - I think the labels may be wrong on the graph.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would it not be latitude PLUS 23.5 deg rather than minus 15
> deg as
> > > > > you suggest for max power in winter?
> > > > >
> > > > > You want them MORE angled up to get the sun as it is closer to the
> > > > > horizon in winter, not more parallel to the ground.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wouldn't the panel perform best when it is perpendicular to the
> suns
> > > > > rays at the winter solstice?
> > > > >
> > > > > Gord Williams
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 2020-12-15 9:31 a.m., Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote:
> > > > > > Note that this means latitude*minus* 15, or pointing at where
> the sun
> > > > is
> > > > > on
> > > > > > solar noon in about a week from now.   If you engineer for that,
> then
> > > > the
> > > > > > rest of the year you're golden.
> > > > > --
> > > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > > > View/change your membership options at
> > > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > - Forrest
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist PIC/SX FAQ & list archive
> > > > View/change your membership options at
> > > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist
> > > >
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> >
> > --
> > Byron A. Jeff
> > Associate Professor: Department of Computer Science and Information
> Technology
> > College of Information and Mathematical Sciences
> > Clayton State University
> > http://faculty.clayton.edu/bjeff
> > --
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>
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