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Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Tamas Rudnai
Hi All,

The friend of mine, Szilva has just made a simplified PicKit2 clone for
hobby users and he asked me to drop a mail here if someone has thoughts
about his design. The main purpose was to be able to build it by
through-hole parts, and anyhow that is simple enough to build it at home by
every hobbyist. It uses the "normal" USB B connector so that the cable is
easier to find at home, so each components a little bit bigger than you can
find in the original device, however, the size of the PCB is quite the
similar. The circuit compatible with the MC PicKit2 firmware, however, you
can use other crystal than 20MHz - you have to set the PLL differently of
course (for example he tested it using 12MHz, with PLLDIV 3 with success).

http://szilva.info/pickit2-1/

There are two major difference between this and the original PicKit2:

1. There is no EEPROM as it is not used at the moment

2. The variable Vdd is missing, so only 5V parts can be programmed with this

In the meantime he used mosfets for Vpp pump, and although he put the clamp
diode D2, he said it can be eliminated as it reduces voltage level. He also
tried couple of different value of coils, with 1mH was using a bit less
current than with 470uH, however, the difference is not that huge - he
recommends to use the original value of 680uH though.

He's delighted to hear any comments, criticism or suggestion - I am trying
to get him here, so hopefully he will subscribe to be able to read your
messages <grin>.

Regards,
Tamas
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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Xiaofan Chen
On 1/31/08, Tamas Rudnai <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There are two major difference between this and the original PicKit2:
>
> 1. There is no EEPROM as it is not used at the moment

This makes sense for now.

> 2. The variable Vdd is missing, so only 5V parts can be programmed with this
>

This does not make much sense. It limits the usage of PICkit 2.

By the way, what is to be gained from this compared to the original
PICkit 2? What will be the cost? The original PICkit 2 has kind of
"cuteness" factor which all the clones do not have. IMHO,
it is not worth the efforts to clone a PICkit 2 in most places. No offence
intended but the existing PICkit 2 clones are ugly at best compared to
the original.

The only thing which might make some senses is to incorporate
the PICkit 2 design into some demo boards.


Xiaofan
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RE: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Wouter van Ooijen
In reply to this post by Tamas Rudnai
> He's delighted to hear any comments, criticism or suggestion -

For my clone (used in http://www.voti.nl/hvu/2TPRJ5/index.html - page is
dutch dutch only, but this file with the schematics is in english:
http://www.voti.nl/hvu/2TPRJ5/DB037.doc ) I used a resonator instead of
a crystal + capacitors. I am not sure if this is within USB spces, but
so far no problem.

He uses a 100n C on Vubs, I think uChip requires 470n. The bleeders R1
and R13 are rather high, I would go for 1k or maybe even 470R.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
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consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu
 
 

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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Tamas Rudnai
In reply to this post by Xiaofan Chen
Hi,


>
> > 2. The variable Vdd is missing, so only 5V parts can be programmed with
> this
>
> This does not make much sense. It limits the usage of PICkit 2.


That's true actually. As far as I know the original goal was to make this
clone as simple as possible, while still do the job perfectly - and as
Szilva said this is for hobbyists who are mainly use 5V parts only. Well,
who builds this one has to keep this limitation in mind.

By the way, what is to be gained from this compared to the original
> PICkit 2? What will be the cost? The original PICkit 2 has kind of
> "cuteness" factor which all the clones do not have. IMHO,
> it is not worth the efforts to clone a PICkit 2 in most places. No offence
> intended but the existing PICkit 2 clones are ugly at best compared to
> the original.


No, the cost is not in the first place but the fun as all the hobby projects
are. And personally I like variations, like clones as those are sometimes
explores something useful. For example as he uses mosfet for Vpp pump it's
might be better but might not. Anyway, building such a clone is good for
example to my son, so he learns etching, soldering, testing etc whilst doing
it so. And finally he could get a device that he can use for learning pic
programming.

The only thing which might make some senses is to incorporate
> the PICkit 2 design into some demo boards.


Yes, that is something to consider too.

Tamas
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RE: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

James Newtons Massmind
In reply to this post by Tamas Rudnai
Adding an entry on the piclist.com list of device programmers page might
help him as well.

Someone might want to clean up and modernize that page... hint, hint...

--
James.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Tamas Rudnai
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 17:30
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: [PIC] Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Hi All,

The friend of mine, Szilva has just made a simplified PicKit2 clone for
hobby users and he asked me to drop a mail here if someone has thoughts
about his design. The main purpose was to be able to build it by
through-hole parts, and anyhow that is simple enough to build it at home by
every hobbyist. It uses the "normal" USB B connector so that the cable is
easier to find at home, so each components a little bit bigger than you can
find in the original device, however, the size of the PCB is quite the
similar. The circuit compatible with the MC PicKit2 firmware, however, you
can use other crystal than 20MHz - you have to set the PLL differently of
course (for example he tested it using 12MHz, with PLLDIV 3 with success).

http://szilva.info/pickit2-1/

There are two major difference between this and the original PicKit2:

1. There is no EEPROM as it is not used at the moment

2. The variable Vdd is missing, so only 5V parts can be programmed with this

In the meantime he used mosfets for Vpp pump, and although he put the clamp
diode D2, he said it can be eliminated as it reduces voltage level. He also
tried couple of different value of coils, with 1mH was using a bit less
current than with 470uH, however, the difference is not that huge - he
recommends to use the original value of 680uH though.

He's delighted to hear any comments, criticism or suggestion - I am trying
to get him here, so hopefully he will subscribe to be able to read your
messages <grin>.

Regards,
Tamas
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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Tamas Rudnai
In reply to this post by Wouter van Ooijen
Hi Wouter,

For my clone (used in http://www.voti.nl/hvu/2TPRJ5/index.html - page is
> dutch dutch only,


Don't worry, Google Translator makes a pretty good job on it ;-)
Unfortunately I have to translate it even though my father was born in
Holland.


> but this file with the schematics is in english:
> http://www.voti.nl/hvu/2TPRJ5/DB037.doc ) I used a resonator instead of
> a crystal + capacitors. I am not sure if this is within USB spces, but
> so far no problem.


That board look pretty cool :-)  Everything is on that board that is
important to learn pic programming and even includes the PicKit2. Was that
designed specially for the lab in your university?

He uses a 100n C on Vubs, I think uChip requires 470n.
>

Yes, that should be changed for sure, I think the datasheet says 220nF so
100nF is not the best choice for sure.

The bleeders R1 and R13 are rather high, I would go for 1k or maybe even
> 470R.


I just told him your thoughts, he said R13 was chosen as the same value was
in the upgraded version on the original PicKit2 (R34 on that schematics). R1
could be smaller he says, but in that way the current consumption was a bit
higher. I think the original uses a fet for pulling it to the ground, it may
be better to do that here too.

Thanks
Tamas
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RE: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Wouter van Ooijen
> That board look pretty cool :-)  Everything is on that board
> that is important to learn pic programming and even includes
> the PicKit2. Was that designed specially for the lab in your
> university?

I designed (and build!) it for my PIC assembly class. It this the 3d
version, 1 had a pickit1 clone and was much smaller, 2 had interfaces
for an ethernet (never got that to work) and an analog joystick (which
are hard to find mowadays), which were replaced by the H-bridge in the
latest version (things that can roam around are always great fun). It
still has some problems with the firmware in the 18F2550 mysteriously
failing, so there will be a few changes for next years' version.

> I just told him your thoughts, he said R13 was chosen as the
> same value was in the upgraded version on the original
> PicKit2 (R34 on that schematics). R1 could be smaller he
> says, but in that way the current consumption was a bit
> higher. I think the original uses a fet for pulling it to the
> ground, it may be better to do that here too.

The (lack of a) bleeder on the USB power was a major problem with the
earlier pickit, I am still not convinced the current one solves it under
all circumstances. For the target power you should either have a
small-value bleeder or a shorting transistor, or forget about
programming vpp-before-vdd chips. The trouble with using a bleeder is
that its value depends on the capacitor in your target circuit...

Wouter van Ooijen

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Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu
 
 

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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Xiaofan Chen
On 2/1/08, wouter van ooijen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The (lack of a) bleeder on the USB power was a major problem with the
> earlier pickit, I am still not convinced the current one solves it under
> all circumstances. For the target power you should either have a
> small-value bleeder or a shorting transistor, or forget about
> programming vpp-before-vdd chips. The trouble with using a bleeder is
> that its value depends on the capacitor in your target circuit...
>

Maybe an circuit which detects the attach/detach is necessary.
Not so sure if this will solve the problem. The other problem is the
dependence of USB voltage for some PICs. But to solve the problem
will increase the cost of PICkit 2 by quite a bit (like USBProg).
The firmware should also be updated (I think it is being updated)
to solve the bugs in the USB framework.
http://forum.microchip.com/tm.aspx?m=275422

BTW, I think me your integrating PICkit 1/2 into the demo
board is a good idea.

Xiaofan
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RE: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Wouter van Ooijen
> The
> other problem is the dependence of USB voltage for some PICs.

I tell the students not to use unpowered hubs, and when a laptop has
problems to try a powered hub.

Also for laptops there is a setting 'power save on USB' or something
like that (details are somewhere in my sheets and/or notes) that needs
to be disabled.

I integrated all (programmer, target, peripherals) on one PCB because
this is for a class of (Technical-) Informatics students: they must
learn to understand and program an existing circuit, adding extra
circuitry is for bonus points. So it makes sense to have a one-cable
one-pcb solution. You'd be amazed what problems they can still create
with just that: "Heee Wouter, the power LED is on but I can't program
the PIC!" "Geee, maybe it would help if you put that USB cable into
*your* PC?"

For electronics engineering students we use an ARM board (LPC2148 -
designed by another teacher) that has some peripherals on the pcb but
more emphasis on the possibility of adding extra hardware. For EE
students the focus is on low-level programming (assembler, timed loops,
peripheral chip interfacing, etc) and designing peripheral hardware.
Nice detail: that ARM board has a 16F630 acting as keypad controller :)

Wouter van Ooijen

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consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: www.voti.nl/hvu
 
 

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Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

cllow2020-2
In reply to this post by Tamas Rudnai
Any english version for this URL ?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Tamas Rudnai
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:30 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: [PIC] Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use


Hi All,

The friend of mine, Szilva has just made a simplified PicKit2 clone for
hobby users and he asked me to drop a mail here if someone has thoughts
about his design. The main purpose was to be able to build it by
through-hole parts, and anyhow that is simple enough to build it at home by
every hobbyist. It uses the "normal" USB B connector so that the cable is
easier to find at home, so each components a little bit bigger than you can
find in the original device, however, the size of the PCB is quite the
similar. The circuit compatible with the MC PicKit2 firmware, however, you
can use other crystal than 20MHz - you have to set the PLL differently of
course (for example he tested it using 12MHz, with PLLDIV 3 with success).

http://szilva.info/pickit2-1/

There are two major difference between this and the original PicKit2:

1. There is no EEPROM as it is not used at the moment

2. The variable Vdd is missing, so only 5V parts can be programmed with this

In the meantime he used mosfets for Vpp pump, and although he put the clamp
diode D2, he said it can be eliminated as it reduces voltage level. He also
tried couple of different value of coils, with 1mH was using a bit less
current than with 470uH, however, the difference is not that huge - he
recommends to use the original value of 680uH though.

He's delighted to hear any comments, criticism or suggestion - I am trying
to get him here, so hopefully he will subscribe to be able to read your
messages <grin>.

Regards,
Tamas
--
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http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/piclist


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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Funny NYPD
In reply to this post by Tamas Rudnai
My web site has some info in English for PICkit 2 Do it yourself fans:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Hardware-CB0703.htm
 
Schematic:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/pdfs/CB0703_PICKit2_Schematic.pdf
Assembly drawing:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/pdfs/CB0703_AssemblyDrawing.pdf
Step by step assembly guide:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/pdfs/Assemble_PICkit2.pdf
Tools you need:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q1.htm
How to find the pin numbers on SMD devices:
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q2.htm
Where to find application program for your PICKit 2?
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q3.htm
How to calibrate your PICKit 2?
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q4.htm
How to trouble-shoot your PICKit 2?
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q5.htm
How to make your PICKit 2 working with board/programming interfaces developed for ICD2?
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q6.htm
How to program DIP type of PICs with your PICkit 2?
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/Q8.htm
 
My design are based on SMD (surface mounted devices) technology, even with some enhanced features, the PCB board is slightly smaller than Microchip's layout. Here are a few example of enhanced features: support both USB type-B and Mini-B connector, Support RJ12 connector, and it has a dedicated external power supply circuit, etc. With a piece of RJ12 reverse cable, my design can be directly connected with board developed for ICD2.

My design has been on production since Sept-2007. Some fans on the PIClist have used it for quite a while and enjoy it. Check out customer comments for many excited feedbacks.
http://www.auelectronics.selfip.com/CustomerComments.htm

A limited life-time warranty is provided for fully assembled units (BB0703 (PICkit2)).
 
Funny N.
Au Group Electronics, New Bedford, MA, http://www.AuElectronics.selfip.com 



----- Original Message ----
From: cllow2020 <[hidden email]>
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008 10:02:17 PM
Subject: [PIC] Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Any english version for this URL ?

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
Tamas Rudnai
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:30 AM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: [PIC] Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use


Hi All,

The friend of mine, Szilva has just made a simplified PicKit2 clone for
hobby users and he asked me to drop a mail here if someone has thoughts
about his design. The main purpose was to be able to build it by
through-hole parts, and anyhow that is simple enough to build it at home by
every hobbyist. It uses the "normal" USB B connector so that the cable is
easier to find at home, so each components a little bit bigger than you can
find in the original device, however, the size of the PCB is quite the
similar. The circuit compatible with the MC PicKit2 firmware, however, you
can use other crystal than 20MHz - you have to set the PLL differently of
course (for example he tested it using 12MHz, with PLLDIV 3 with success).

http://szilva.info/pickit2-1/

There are two major difference between this and the original PicKit2:

1. There is no EEPROM as it is not used at the moment

2. The variable Vdd is missing, so only 5V parts can be programmed with this

In the meantime he used mosfets for Vpp pump, and although he put the clamp
diode D2, he said it can be eliminated as it reduces voltage level. He also
tried couple of different value of coils, with 1mH was using a bit less
current than with 470uH, however, the difference is not that huge - he
recommends to use the original value of 680uH though.

He's delighted to hear any comments, criticism or suggestion - I am trying
to get him here, so hopefully he will subscribe to be able to read your
messages <grin>.

Regards,
Tamas
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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Tamas Rudnai
Hi,

Someone asked if there is an English version of that page - Szilva finally
translated it, also made some modifications you guys advised, thanks for
that!

So the English version can be found at:

http://szilva.info/pickit2-1/index.en.html

AFAIK Szilva will join to this list so hopefully he could contribute with
some thoughts without my (mis)interpretation <grin>

Tamas
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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Szilvásy Zoltán (GMail)
In reply to this post by Tamas Rudnai
Hi Everybody,

I am here, as Tamas said. This is my first try to write to this list, I hope
I'am doing it well.

English translation of PICkit2 clone site has been done at weekend, today I
have updloaded the PCB layout in PDF format too. I plan to build an add-on
board between the clone and the external circuit for using the clone with
3.3V PICs.

szilva

-------------------

Hi,

Someone asked if there is an English version of that page - Szilva finally
translated it, also made some modifications you guys advised, thanks for
that!

So the English version can be found at:

http://szilva.info/pickit2-1/index.en.html

AFAIK Szilva will join to this list so hopefully he could contribute with
some thoughts without my (mis)interpretation <grin>

Tamas
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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

blueroomelectronics
In reply to this post by cllow2020-2
I've also made a simplified PICkit2 compatible kit with built in PIC 18F1320 tutor called Junebug. Manual on my site including schematics.
http://www.blueroomelectronics.com/

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Re: Simplified PicKit2 clone for hobby use

Cana Kit
Hi Everyone,

We have just released our PICKit2 Clone with built-in 20-pin ZIF socket.  For anyone interested, it is available below as both Kit and Fully Assembled:

http://www.canakit.com/usb-pic-programmer.html



Thank you!
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